In this episode, Desiree and Amber discuss promoting a book, business, or brand on social media while trying to remain authentic in a landscape that prioritizes drama, trauma, and conflict. 

Keywords:

self-care, independent publishing, social media, authenticity, resilience, mental health, personal growth, emotional maturity, content creation, work-life balance

Summary:

Amber Wardell and Desiree Moore explore the complexities of self-care, resilience, and the challenges of navigating social media while maintaining authenticity. They discuss the journey of independent publishing, the balance between personal and professional life, and the importance of setting boundaries. The dialogue emphasizes the need for self-compassion and the understanding that it’s okay to be a work in progress. They also touch on the impact of social media algorithms on content visibility and the struggle to connect with an audience that resonates with their messages of hope and personal growth.

Takeaways:

• Self-care is essential in a quick-fix culture.
• Independent publishing allows for creative freedom but comes with challenges.
• Balancing social media and full-time work can be overwhelming.
• Authenticity on social media is crucial but can conflict with professionalism.
• Going viral often attracts the wrong audience.
• Resilience involves resting and recovering, not just pushing through.
• Setting boundaries is vital for mental health and well-being.
• It’s okay to be a work in progress and seek external validation.
• Content creation should align with personal values and sustainability.
• Hope and resilience can be powerful themes in storytelling.

Chapters:

Episode Transcript:

Amber Wardell, PhD (00:01.582)
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Sensible Sessions. I’m Amber Wardell, and today I am here with my dear friend Desiree Moore. We’re gonna be talking about a whole host of things today, and I’m so excited to dive right in. So I’m just gonna go ahead and get started. Desiree, hi, it’s so great to have you here today.

Desiree Moore (00:20.536)
Thank you so much for having me Amber.

Amber Wardell, PhD (00:23.076)
So for those of you who are just tuning in, Desiree is, no. See, aha, I’m already having to. Yeah. Okay. So Desiree, you are an author, you are a mom, you are a full-time businesswoman. You work in business development, working in corporate America while also trying to be a mom.

Desiree Moore (00:31.15)
It’s hard.

Desiree Moore (00:45.71)
me.

Amber Wardell, PhD (00:52.224)
and trying to promote your book and all of these things. And I just think it’s amazing when I look at what you do on social media, when I look at all of the things that you’re doing in terms of advocacy, in terms of just not just promoting your book, which we’re going to get to in a minute, but talking about the issues that are germane to the book in a way that simultaneously promotes the book and talks about the issues that are in the book and really relates with people. just, think it’s so incredible.

And one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on was that, you know, when you, when you purchase a friend’s book, you always know you’re going to like it because it’s, it’s your friend. You’re like, of course I’m going to like this. My friend wrote this book. but I have to say that when I read your book, which is untitled for now, I enjoyed this book the way that you would enjoy a book that you just like picked up off the shelf at Barnes and Noble. Like when, when you go in with that, just objective expectation of like,

a book whose cover I like and whose premise I’m drawn to, and you bring it home not knowing what to expect and you fall in love with it. It was just such a wonderful journey reading this book. And I don’t think I’ve ever connected with a friend’s book in that way before. And that was really, really special to me.

Desiree Moore (02:11.918)
Thank you. It is a huge compliment because one thing I committed to doing a long time ago is I will always be independently published. They could offer me millions and I probably would say no to a trad publisher. And not because I have an issue with trad publishing or traditional publishing for those who are unfamiliar. It’s just because I love entrepreneurship, right? And I love that this is a small business.

and it’s not corporate run. And those are things that I love and are interesting and exciting to me. And so, but I also through that, through that independent publishing journey, I want to make sure that I’m being competitive with traditionally published books. know, they have the resources to be well edited, to have professional covers, to be marketed well. And so I am a one woman show.

trying to compete with what they have entire teams to do.

Amber Wardell, PhD (03:15.63)
Yeah, and I really feel like I think that that was what struck me about this is that, you know, you just, there is so much, think there’s some prejudice around traditional publishing, excuse me, self-publishing. And I think we’re coming out of that now. We’re starting to see some of that evolving. But even I, like as someone who’s so many of my friends are self-published,

Desiree Moore (03:30.721)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (03:40.734)
you know, there is that, that bias that you’re like, well, it’s going to be lower quality because they did it themselves. You kind of go in with, well, I shouldn’t speak for everyone. feel like I went in with almost this patronizing sort of like, there’s going to be typos. There’s going to be things in there because they don’t have access to some of these things that, that traditional publishers offer. And, and then reading this and just seeing my God, the professionalism, the, just every, attention to every detail that went into this was just.

Amazing and so I could go on and on and on about this before we go any further maybe Well, I think maybe we should like let people know what your book is about before I just like go on and on this way so could you give people just sort of a synopsis of first of all of yours of well How do you want to do this? Would you like to tell your story first and then how the book relates or would you like to talk about? The book and then go into your story

Desiree Moore (04:12.942)
I was going to say, we don’t let the full podcast of me just about my book.

Desiree Moore (04:37.358)
I can interweave them. So the book is about Helen who is in a mental hospital missing 30 years of her memory. And you as the reader go back and forth between her past and present to discover exactly what led to her broken state. The chapters that are set in the past are very much based on my life story. And the chapters set in the past make up the majority of the book. I do have a story that I tell.

quite publicly, including on social media about, you know, just my experience as a child of an addict growing up in severe generational poverty, teen pregnancy, getting married very young and being a teen parent for a second time, and then losing my daughter at the hands of her father. And so it’s a sad story, but I know that it’s one.

that has a positive impact on all kinds of people, people who relate to it, people who don’t relate to it, but can gain more empathy through reading about the lived experiences of others, people who need to understand why they internalize shame the way that they do and what resilience can look like, but shouldn’t look like. And so those are just some of the things and the reasons that I wrote this first book.

Amber Wardell, PhD (06:00.548)
I love the way you put that because that was the feeling that I got through so much of this book and especially knowing you and knowing that so much of this is based on your story and your life, following you on social media and knowing how your story intersects with this and also departs from it in some ways. And I think a thought that I was struck by so often in the story is that Helen, you shouldn’t have to be this strong.

Desiree Moore (06:29.549)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (06:30.084)
have to keep finding new ways to be resilient, to figure things out, to start over. And you and she kept figuring it out. And I think that what I was struck by is that, you know, I feel like today there’s a lot of…

There’s a lot of praise for people speaking about their hardships, which is great because I think for a long time there was shame around talking about our hardships, right? But in some ways, as things tend to do, the pendulum has swung a little too far. And now if you talk about overcoming your obstacles, if you talk about resilience and trying to find the good in the bad, you get accused of toxic positivity and things like that. And it’s like,

I just think that the book so responsibly and seriously handles that conversation of like, can be so raw and honest about all of the bad and I can be vulnerable and true about that. And also I can look for the good, I can look for the happy and I can keep moving forward and not stay kind of entrenched in where I was.

Desiree Moore (07:43.542)
Right, absolutely. do think ultimately it is a book about hope, right? And people are left with feelings of hope at the end. People who have not, one thing that I’ve noticed though, people who have not experienced that much adversity, they’ll be like, it says a happy ending. Like that ending wasn’t exactly that happy. I’m like, maybe not to you, right? Maybe you’re happily ever after is like riding off into the sunset with like a millionaire on your arm or something. I don’t know, but.

for somebody like me who grew up the way I did, that was an incredibly happy ending and I’m not gonna spoil it. But I think that another thing that we forget about sometimes is what resilience is. And I talk about this sometimes on my page is, we often think of resilience as the ability to get up and keep going. And in the book, you see Helen do that over and over again, but eventually it breaks her because you can’t just keep doing that, right? In order to get up,

and keep going, you have to rest first. Resilience is not just the ability to get up and keep going. It’s the ability to stop, rest, recover, and then get up. And that was a lesson I had to learn during my lifetime and that I tried to embed into the pages of that book because it is just so important when we think about resilience and hope and overcoming. like to say I have like a little, have you ever seen The Incredibles? Okay.

Amber Wardell, PhD (09:08.014)
Yes.

Desiree Moore (09:09.354)
So if you’ve seen the Incredibles, there’s this moment where Elastigirl is like, my God, my husband, he’s on this island with some woman and she’s losing it, right? She’s heartbroken and Edna stands on the table and she’s like, get yourself together, right? And so I always imagine a little Edna in my head. So I allow myself to sit with the really.

horrible emotions and I allow myself to recognize them, process them, let them go. I’m getting better at the resting thing. I’m not good at it yet. And then eventually Edna comes out and she just, you know, slaps me silly until I get back up. But.

Amber Wardell, PhD (09:53.24)
I think that’s a, yeah, I think that’s a really good way of looking at it. We have to have that sort of internal regulator, that mechanism that comes in and says, okay, that’s enough. It’s time to dust yourself off. We got to get up. We got to get, we got to keep it moving.

Desiree Moore (10:08.18)
Absolutely. And don’t burn down the world before that happens. So

Amber Wardell, PhD (10:12.96)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Now I wanted to, so one of the things that we’re going to be talking about today, it’s actually the purpose of this podcast is all about what it’s like when you are someone who doesn’t use social media full time. It’s not your full time profession. We’re seeing a lot of people who have now quit their full time jobs and are doing social media as their full time career. But there are many of us who

are either like in your case, still have a full-time job and are doing that for 40, 50 hours a week and also trying to use social media to promote a book, a business, a brand, a side hustle, whatever that might be. Or they may be like me who I no longer have a full-time job, but my full-time job is promoting my current book. My second book is out on submission and social media is what I use for.

for doing those things. And so we’re gonna talk about what that’s like and kind of where a lot of us are feeling some growing pains right now in that regard. But before we get into that, I know that both of us have really cool works in progress. And so I wanted to quickly hear about the book that you’re working on because it’s on a topic that’s really, really special to me. So could you tell us a little bit about that?

Desiree Moore (11:33.806)
Yes, I would be happy to. So my next book coming out in April of 2025 is titled Affirming Imogene. And this is a story about a mother who would do anything to protect her daughter who happens to be transgender. And when she makes a decision that is illegal and gets caught, they have no choice but to flee. And oddly enough, find themselves, they find a safe haven with a community of drag queens.

So that is the book, but it was very much inspired by my experience as a mother of a daughter who belongs to the LGBTQIA community and how she has been terrorized and discriminated against in her own school and made to feel that she was not safe because of her identity. And so, you you want to protect your kids, shield them from everything.

Amber Wardell, PhD (12:03.012)
you

Desiree Moore (12:31.53)
But sometimes the real courage lies in letting go and allowing them to navigate those challenges on their own. And so I wanted to write a book that kind of encapsulated that and my journey through it as a mother.

Amber Wardell, PhD (12:37.38)
and

Amber Wardell, PhD (12:47.298)
I love that. love how it’s very interesting to me as I hear you describe that. I think about Untitled for Now. And then I think about my book Beyond Self-Care Potato chips and my current work in progress, which is called Aging Defiantly and a Reverent Guide to Your 30s, 40s, 50s and beyond. And what I like about how you and I approach our writing I’m noticing is that you’re a fiction author. I’m a nonfiction author.

Desiree Moore (13:05.998)
I’m so excited, sorry.

Amber Wardell, PhD (13:16.957)
And we both take our life experiences and we transmute those into stories. You use fiction as the vehicle and I use nonfiction as the vehicle, but we are using something from the heart to teach people things with two different mechanisms to do it. And I think that’s really cool.

Desiree Moore (13:37.07)
It is really cool and it’s amazing how we can take these experiences from our lives and turn them into these teaching moments. And we know that stories are the best way to teach. And so it’s quite powerful.

Amber Wardell, PhD (13:51.46)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so now as we’re kind of, I was telling you, you know, as we were texting and talking about this show that I don’t want this episode to come across in that like chronically online way that like, oh my gosh, let’s bitch about social media, right? Because I could, I could make a million podcasts about that. But I think there’s this reality right now that a lot of people, you know, COVID especially kind of nudged everybody onto social media as a, as a, as a

profitable and realistic space for promoting a business brand book, their art, know, anything of that nature. And so there are a lot of people right now who are using social media as a way to grow their business, promote their book or anything like that. And, know, you and I have been talking so much about sort of how challenging that can be.

Desiree Moore (14:45.08)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (14:45.868)
And I wanted to have this conversation with you because I feel like a lot of us are finding ourselves really stuck in this, really uncomfortable place right now, because here’s what I’ve noticed and tell me if you agree. so there’s people who have quit their jobs and they’re doing social media full time. And because of that, when your job is social media, you get to really, really play into the algorithms rules. Right. And so on the algorithm.

Desiree Moore (15:12.11)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (15:13.788)
If you’re just trying to make money, the algorithm loves controversy. It loves rage bait. It loves anything that’s going to get people arguing, fussing, fussing and fighting. And it doesn’t matter how much of a lunatic you make yourself look like. It doesn’t matter how disrespectful or even cruel you are because who cares? You’re just making money. When you are someone

Desiree Moore (15:38.924)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (15:41.892)
who has your name attached to something that like in my case and in yours, our books have a message of hope, a message of positivity, a message of personal growth and resilience and change. You can’t really be out there being an asshole. You know what I mean?

Desiree Moore (16:02.766)
Sometimes you want to, right? Sometimes you want to tell Mark to eat shit, but you can’t.

Amber Wardell, PhD (16:09.324)
Yeah, I’ve gone down that route before I have. I am, I am in recovery from that time of my life, but it’s really challenging, right? Because you cannot play by those rules. You have to play by a different set of rules because you’re having to maintain a level of professionalism. Right. And so I feel like in my case, it’s that, I have a publisher who is watching my content, who I represent. so they’re saying, hello, let’s not.

please represent us this way while you’re out promoting your book. In your case, you have a full-time job. You don’t want to put yourself in a position to potentially have your livelihood taken away because of the way you are presenting yourself on social media. It’s a different way.

Desiree Moore (16:54.766)
It’s true. And it’s hard. I have a story, something that like, I went viral several years ago, I think it was 2021, because some guy said, no, you have such a cute face, please stop eating sugar. And I was just like, what? And so I had been hanging out with my friends. I had a couple of white claws, okay? And I got this idea. And no story, starting with white claws ends up good. No, I’m just kidding. This one was good.

And so I had this idea and in my idea, I just like, was wearing just like leggings and a t-shirt because I had been painting my house. But I went inside and I put a bathing suit on underneath and my boyfriend at the time, he was standing on a ladder outside the view of the camera. I had a friend recording and pour some sugar by.

Is it deaf leopard is the song we chose and you know, I take off my clothes. I’m in my swimsuit. I’m dancing around and then sugar comes from the sky, right? And like. And I love that video so much. I loved it so much because it was just so empowering and it went viral and the sound got removed and I’ve never like put it back up with a new sound. But I always think to myself like.

I have an very outward facing job and I speak to a lot of people in very professional fields. They’re also professionals. What if I’m like on a webinar one day or at a conference and they’re like, you’re the sugar girl.

Amber Wardell, PhD (18:24.952)
Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Desiree Moore (18:28.664)
And you have to think about those things. Even if you’re not being ugly, even if you’re not being controversial, you have to think about, one day somebody could look at you and say, are you the sugar girl?

Amber Wardell, PhD (18:38.809)
Yeah.

Desiree Moore (18:40.29)
And it kind of sucks because that’s who I’m, that’s who I am authentically. So I feel.

Amber Wardell, PhD (18:44.972)
Right. Yeah. And I mean, this is where I struggle too. God. So for me with, with Beyond Self Care Potato chips, so much of what’s in this book is about being your authentic self and like not being afraid to be who you are authentically. Right. But also in that book is about, emotion regulation, emotional maturity, practicing wisdom, all of these things that are a journey that I’m on.

but you and me, we’re both Capricorns, right? Like we’re spicy people. We like to clap back sometimes. What is authentic to me is not always the enlightened meditative path. Sometimes what’s authentic to me is to snap back at somebody. And so I really struggle with walking this tightrope of I wanna be authentic to me. And I do wanna show people

Desiree Moore (19:38.478)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (19:41.336)
what it can look like to in some circumstances show grace and compassion and empathy and all of these things. And on the other hand, show them what it can look like to set boundaries even sharply, even firmly, and sometimes even have a little fun with it. But even that I can struggle with because sometimes I will get accused of behaving in ways that are in misalignment with my book.

Desiree Moore (19:58.168)
Mm-hmm

Amber Wardell, PhD (20:07.586)
because, look at me, I’m clapping back at someone. Aren’t I the person who’s all about being emotionally mature and self-regulated? I’m like, yes, but I’m also the person that’s about being authentic.

Desiree Moore (20:20.556)
Yes, I was going to say it’s never OK to hold ourselves to the standard of perfection. And I don’t think it’s OK to hold other people to that standard as well. Yeah, they do. And sometimes I’ll see a creator make a video or say something that’s a little out of character for them. And it could just be the day that that they’re having. It could be information that they just received. It could be all kinds of things. Who knows, right?

Amber Wardell, PhD (20:32.708)
They sure try though.

Desiree Moore (20:49.27)
character sometimes, or we have a different side to our character that we don’t necessarily expose constantly. it’s people are not one dimensional things. And what I find fascinating about social media is like we have commodified human beings in the oddest way. Like I feel like creators are not even people anymore or not allowed to be people. They have to follow a very strict script. And if they don’t, they’re punished. Either they’re punished by their audience or

they’re punished by the algorithm. it’s the objectification of human beings that bothers me so much and I struggle with. I have some ways in which I’ve thought to get around it. And I’m like, I never want to go viral. That sounds really weird, like as somebody who has a book to sell. focus on my people who actually care.

Amber Wardell, PhD (21:41.55)
No, I’m with you.

Desiree Moore (21:46.798)
400,000 followers, I maybe have, let’s say, 5,000 people who actually care. I’m focused on those 5,000.

Amber Wardell, PhD (21:55.032)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I’m with you. There was a time when I really thought that going viral was the goal. And then I realized going viral is actually you landing on the wrong side of whatever platform you’re on. Going viral is what happens when your video lands where it wasn’t meant to go, when it gets in the hands of not your target audience, right? Because when the right people are seeing my content, there is average

engagement. is just positive, nice conversation happening. People exchanging stories, maybe exchanging, like swapping advice with each other and things like that. And that video is never going to make it out into the algorithm because it cannot compete with a video or a post where people are arguing in the comment sections and there’s thousands and thousands of comments. Right? And so when I realized

that going viral as someone who wants to find my audience and connect with them, going viral is the opposite of what I want because all it’s doing is just bringing me to people who are not my target audience. And now I have to go fight with those people or at the very least just deal with the constant notifications from those people. It’s not what I want anymore. But it is very sad and it can be very lonely sometimes when you realize that I’m coming here every day

Desiree Moore (23:15.213)
Mm-mm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (23:22.148)
And I’m putting the same amount of work into my content. In some ways, I think I’m putting more work into my content than some of these people who are just rage baiting and rage farming. And I am getting such a fraction of the engagement. As an example, I have 712,000 followers on TikTok and my videos on average are being seen by less than 1 % of my followers.

Desiree Moore (23:49.164)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (23:50.498)
And it’s because the algorithm doesn’t prioritize stories of personal growth and joy. And, and I don’t want to say positivity, but stories of overcoming and, self-actualization, realizations. I gained my following back when I was being messy and toxic and a disaster on social media.

Desiree Moore (24:01.774)
No.

Desiree Moore (24:10.932)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, if you ever get a chance, go look at your analytics and look at the videos over time that garnered you followers. And it’s kind of interesting to see. You know, I have a video right now telling people what happened to my ex-husband who murdered my daughter. That is, I could make 50 videos on that and it would always get really great attention. I could talk about how I rebuilt my life at the age of 18. You know, I lost my daughter.

when I was 18 years old and I had another child in foster care and how I got her back and I rebuilt my life and I got a master’s degree and I’ve done all these wonderful things and it’ll get half, maybe a quarter of the engagement. I don’t understand it. I don’t understand why people are more interested in what happened to the murderer than how the victims were able to get through and push through and survive.

Amber Wardell, PhD (25:05.902)
I have two questions about that though. I like, and I want to hear your thoughts on that. And I’m going to ask you both questions at once, but I can remember them if you’re not able to hold them both in working memory. Cause I know, can I, did I lose them? Okay. The first one is, you think it’s actually that people are less interested in the stories of, of, of hope and resilience and overcoming, or is it that for whatever reason, the algorithm is only pushing the stories of pain and trauma out?

Desiree Moore (25:14.05)
Hey.

Amber Wardell, PhD (25:35.032)
That’s number one. And the second one is, you find that if, don’t know if you’ve been able to look at these analytics, but do you find that even though those videos of how you overcame, even though they get less reach, do you find that you get more conversions of new followers from those videos than you do from the sensational ones that are stories of trauma?

Desiree Moore (25:58.08)
Right. So the answer would be, I think the algorithm largely depends on how people interact with the content, whether they watch it all the way through, whether they comment like, and I just get more comments, I get more likes, and so I feel like it gets pushed further. I could be wrong and the algorithm could just, you know, love trauma. The other thing is, is I do think, I do think I get more followers when I’m spicy than I do, not spicy, but like,

something that’s semi-controversial or kind of not hopeful, I get more followers from that. But I will say on the flip side of that, I get the type of followers I want out of my more hopeful and resilient posts. So I get more reach with the things that are difficult, such as talking about what happened to her murderer.

but I get the types of followers I want when I talk about things that are hopeful.

Amber Wardell, PhD (27:01.504)
a really important distinction to make because there’s also the matter of if we’re coming at this from, I’m trying to sell a book, I’m trying to grow my brand or my business, which is that views are great, engagement is great, but a lot of those people are not going to buy my book, you know, if they’re following because they, you know, it’s the online, what’s the right metaphor for this? It’s like the online version of ambulance chasing.

Like, you know, the people who chase ambulances just because they want to see whatever has happened to the person who’s in it. It’s like that. Those people don’t want to read your book. They don’t want to hear about how you, how you overcame. They just want to see your trauma. And it’s interesting. It makes me think of, and I know you’ve seen, you’ve, you’ve been there through all of this that I’ve been through, but you know, earlier this year, I had a really nasty friend fall out with another person who had a very large platform on social media.

Desiree Moore (27:36.354)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (27:59.312)
And it was very hateful. was ugly. This person made over 21 videos about me filled with lies. and I stomached it for three or four months. I let it go. And it wasn’t until I watched her gearing up to do that to another one of our friends that I finally stepped in and I said something. And the cascade that happened from that was that of course I made my video and then I wanted that to be it.

But then other people made videos. And so then I had to, I had to begin responding to some of those and the cascade that happened resulted in me creating about four or five videos on this topic, which sucked because despite how much this person had hurt me, had, loved her at one time. She was my best friend at one time.

Desiree Moore (28:27.758)
Mm-hmm.

Desiree Moore (28:45.102)
Isn’t that the hardest thing ever though to acknowledge that like somebody who you loved hurt you? Like I struggle with that. Cause in my mind I want to like be like, I knew all along, but we didn’t.

Amber Wardell, PhD (28:53.412)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Amber Wardell, PhD (29:01.508)
You don’t you don’t always a lot of times you don’t And so man those videos got millions of views I made a lot of money during that time which was not Anticipated I that wasn’t all I wanted to do was clear my name and be done with all of this And it was astonishing to see how many views how much following and how much money I got as a result of that

My book wasn’t out yet, so it wasn’t, and I would never have tried to like parlay all of that drama into book sales anyway. But all I’m saying is like, I don’t know if that would have translated into book sales because my book wasn’t out yet. But I got, and in the midst of all that, I got so much praise too. People so proud of me and like cheering me on for coming out here and like being bombastic and showing the receipts and all that. And, you know, that was back in June and I’ve been working on myself and healing and

A few weeks ago, I just, really been praying over this and meditating on it. And I just realized I have healed from that. And you know, it wasn’t, was, think it was Tupac who said this, like, you may have lost me as a friend, but you didn’t gain me as an enemy. And I realized that that’s how I feel about this person. I don’t find her to be an enemy anymore. And because of that, I just, I no longer want to be tied to her. no longer want videos out there that represent that

Desiree Moore (30:19.886)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (30:27.566)
time in my life and don’t represent who I am as a person. And I took them down and I made a video explaining why. And I did that because I wanted to show an example of, you know, I have very loudly been bombastic and messy and controversial on this app. And I would like to show you an example of the opposite of that. And I was shocked by number one, how little engagement that kind of that content got, but also how much

booing it got, like how people just really didn’t like that message. Even friends and mutuals of mine who in some ways thought I was being judgmental, which was bizarre to me because I was talking about my own story. People who were finger wagging me for healing and moving on. And when you’re a person who is building a brand around

Yes, bad shit has happened to me and also I’m figuring out how to not let that define me. It’s really discouraging when it feels like you’re not allowed to talk about how you’re growing. People want you to just stay talking about the bad stuff.

Desiree Moore (31:41.902)
especially if any part of you does still rely on external validation to a degree, right? And I know I do. And so I think that it feels not good. It feels like maybe I’m doing the wrong thing, right? Maybe the right thing is to tell that person to F off or whatever. And so it can be very confusing.

Amber Wardell, PhD (31:49.486)
Oof.

Desiree Moore (32:08.806)
And it actually does disrupt your sense of self sometimes. what I have done, and this is just a practical tip for anybody, but what I have done is I have a vision statement, okay? I wrote it and there’s like an exercise I take my team on every once in a while. And I have this vision statement. It is my North Star. It is the type of person I wanna be. It’s how I wanna live my life.

And when I’m feeling like my sense of self is deteriorating because of that need for external validation and the mixed messages I’m getting from social media, what I know is right in my heart, I look at my vision statement and I have to realign myself. And that’s something I do probably more regularly than I’d like to admit, but because it feels like it’s so easy when you’re a content creator or somebody who has to operate online that you do get whacked out of balance.

just

Amber Wardell, PhD (33:08.93)
Yeah, no, I’m sorry. I’m just like, I love, I have chills actually, because I do, because I think a lot of us don’t want to admit number one, that we do deal with still seeking external validation. We don’t want to admit that. That’s not a sexy thing to say, but it is true. So much of us still really do. I mean, what are any of us doing on social media if not because there’s a part of us that enjoy that validation?

Desiree Moore (33:24.11)
Mm-hmm.

Desiree Moore (33:36.974)
Mm-hmm.

Amber Wardell, PhD (33:37.688)
but also having this really great grounding tool that you have that I’ve said in my book and in a bunch of my videos, I wanna know myself so well that I am the truth and everyone else is the lie. And I feel like that’s what you’re doing with this mission statement that you have of like, this is my truth, this is who I am. And if anyone tells me that I am something outside of this, it doesn’t matter, this is who I am.

Desiree Moore (33:52.75)
Mm-hmm.

Desiree Moore (33:58.894)
Mm-hmm.

Desiree Moore (34:05.9)
Right, absolutely.

Amber Wardell, PhD (34:06.562)
Are you comfortable sharing what that mission statement is? It’s okay to say no.

Desiree Moore (34:09.422)
Yeah, so it’s essentially I am a strong woman capable of overcoming all in any adversity for the purpose of creating a world in which we lead with our hearts. And so if I read that and I’m making a decision, OK, the decision that I’m making today, is that a decision that leads that contributes to a world in which we lead with our hearts? And if sometimes I don’t do what I’m supposed to do, but, know,

I’ll briefly say I had an incident on social media where I was grappling with what to do and I looked at my vision statement and it was clear as day within an instant, like, okay, this is the plan of action. I have to go remove those videos. I have to like go respond to messages. I have to apologize to this person. Like I have to do these things because that’s what aligns with my vision statement, not me hiding under my blanket, which I really want to do.

so, so yes, that, is my vision statement.

Amber Wardell, PhD (35:08.708)
Hahaha

Amber Wardell, PhD (35:16.908)
I love that. And how do you feel that that kind of ties into as you’re trying to show up authentically, show up in a way that is family friendly isn’t the word, maybe brand friendly is the word, like showing up in a way that won’t get you in trouble at work, won’t make it difficult to sell your book. And also,

still trying to promote your book. Like how do these things all come together on social media?

Desiree Moore (35:46.862)
haphazardly.

Amber Wardell, PhD (35:52.042)
expecting but it was so perfectly delivered.

Desiree Moore (35:57.645)
But honestly, like actually I’m in I’m currently in this middle area, this gray area right now. I have a week off between the holidays because we’re at the holiday season and I’m going to take down some time or I’m going to take some time. I’m going to sit down and I’m just going to like brain dump what I think about my presence online and how I want to change it and what’s actually sustainable to me because something that I struggle with is doing it all and doing it all perfectly.

And obviously, like, if you’ve watched my content, I’m just sitting there talking. don’t do anything too elaborate. But how do I do it and do it well? And I’ve started series before and then quit those series because it was unsustainable and I couldn’t dedicate that many hours to doing that extravagant thing every week. And I need to sit down. need to say, what am I going to do that’s going to provide the most value to the audience that I want?

aligns with my values and I can sustain. And those are all the questions if you’re looking at producing content that I think you should be asking yourself. And I have been kind of floundering, like just like throwing out whatever, seeing what sticks. And finally, I think I’m to that place where I’m like, okay, let’s, let’s pull it in and let’s figure out what works and what doesn’t work for you and why. And let’s focus on three.

Amber Wardell, PhD (37:12.632)
Right?

Desiree Moore (37:20.418)
things, right? Or whatever that is and move forward with a plan for that. So that’s where I’m at right now. And I do struggle though, because I have this weight of responsibility that I always feel. So that’s probably the most crushing thing of it all, balancing all of this is feeling so responsible for the people who watch my content and like…

and their comments and their messages and then my family and then my workplace, like sometimes it’s too much. And so the year of 2025 I have deemed will be the year of sustainability. So.

Amber Wardell, PhD (38:00.622)
Yes. I’m with you there. I feel like a big thing that I’ve had to do is number one, I am becoming in 2025 really choosy about which platforms I’m going to be spending my time on. And for me, that’s going to be more of the ones that are more long form. I’m going to be focusing on YouTube and my podcast and maybe more so on Instagram where I can do static posts as well. Cause I’m seeing some conversion there for book sales.

that I don’t find TikTok and reels necessarily to have a high turn on investment. So I’m really reevaluating where I’m spending my time. And the other thing that I’m doing is in a lot of ways, seeing my content as being outbound only. And that’s really hard for me because so much that we heard when we all started realizing that maybe this was a way to build our book, brand, business, whatever, is that, you have to be engaged with your audience.

You have to be in the comments. have to, you know, and, and yes, like, yes, I don’t think we can afford to just post and ghost, but I’m really changing the, hold on, let me share this with you because my husband is very, very technical. And he explained to me that one of the reasons why I found myself sometimes getting more and more of the same type of troll in my comment sections is that I get triggered by those trolls.

And then I respond to them because I feel the need. This is something I’m working on. I have the need to get the last word in. And so I will come respond to those people. And what the algorithm thinks is, she’s responding to these people. These are the kind of people that are her target audience. So let’s send more people like that this way. And now I get more mean, nasty trolls in my comment sections. And so one of the things that I’m doing is realizing

My comment section is none of my business unless it is somebody who is, who has genuinely piqued my interest, who is in alignment with me or even not necessarily by alignment. I don’t mean agreeing with me, but is in alignment with me in terms of a shared interest in this topic and wants to discuss it further.

Desiree Moore (40:16.204)
Yeah, they’re having a good faith conversation with you. And maybe they’re arguing, but it’s a good faith argument. They’re not just being a troll. There’s another creator. They said that their rule of thumb is 24 hours. They’ll engage with the comments from a video for 24 hours, but after 24 hours, they don’t look at the comments. And that’s their hard and fast rule for every video. And so that way they are engaging with their audience and they’re engaging with their followers first, because that’s who sees the video first. And then after that, they’re done.

Amber Wardell, PhD (40:24.706)
Yeah.

Amber Wardell, PhD (40:44.718)
How are they doing that? How are they not seeing, how are they not looking at the comments? Because for me, the comments are coming in.

Desiree Moore (40:53.484)
They might purposefully clear their notifications without actually really looking or reading and then only go directly to the video to respond to comments.

Amber Wardell, PhD (41:03.172)
that makes sense. Just bypass the notifications feed. I see. That’s a good idea. That’s a good idea. So I know that we’re running short on time. I wanted to, I guess I wanted to ask you if, if you were.

Desiree Moore (41:09.41)
Yeah.

Amber Wardell, PhD (41:22.552)
What is your advice for women who are like us, who are in this position that we are in? And I want everyone to understand that Desiree is not, I’m not asking Desiree this as a professional. She is like, don’t take this as like hard and fast advice. This is someone who is walking a similar journey as you, and I’m just asking her her thoughts on this. And so to you, Desiree, I’m not putting massive amounts of pressure on you here. I’m asking you as a friend.

Desiree Moore (41:46.222)
No, you’re okay. Do I have time to tell a really quick story?

Amber Wardell, PhD (41:51.962)
I would love for you to, I was actually ending it cause I figured you might be out of time, but I got as much time as you have.

Desiree Moore (41:55.566)
Oh, no, I’m good. So I just I want to tell this quick story because you had said, you know, Desiree is somebody who’s on this journey with you. And so I have advice, but it comes from a lesson I had to learn. OK. And so I think some of those are the most valuable. It’s not somebody something I found on a website. And I was just like, oh, this sounds nice and lofty. I’m going to tell you this. So.

I’m going to tell you something, if you’ve listened this long, you will be the third person, well, Amber’s the third person, you will be the however many people to learn about this really embarrassing moment I had. So a couple of years ago, not that many years ago, my workplace was very stressful. I had a boss that I did not get along with. I would say he, they were, we might, I’m going to restart the story. Legal, I have to be careful about my words. Okay.

Several years ago, not so many years ago, my life was just incredibly stressful as it is now, but different because I wasn’t managing anything well and I wasn’t setting boundaries. So I had this really overwhelming workplace. I had a boss I did not get along with. I felt like I was always running behind. I was trying to be everything to my family and I was running on fumes.

And so this particular day I was leaving for work and this boss that was not a very good boss pulled me into their office. But I was leaving for work to get my daughter to dance on time, okay? Let’s just say I was in their office for about 30 minutes and I had planned on using that 30 minutes to get my daughter to dance, go to the grocery store so we had food for dinner and take care of what I needed to take care of as a mother.

Well, I get out of the meeting. I’m so stressed out because I know I’m running late to pick up my daughter. She’s calling me freaking out, crying because I’m late. I get in my car and this is an Easter egg by the way for my upcoming book, Affirming Imogene. There’s a slice of sticky yellow cheese on my windshield blocking my view.

Desiree Moore (44:10.304)
And I just like remember being so frustrated and I got out and I took that piece of cheese off the windshield and then I sat in my car and I cried for five minutes because I was so frustrated and so frazzled. But then I had to go pick up my daughter. So I go and I pick her up and.

we’re going to be about four minutes late to dance. And so I’m like, you’re just going to be four minutes late. And she’s like, I don’t want to be late at all. And she’s crying and she’s crying. And I’m in the car and I finally say, I wish I spanked you because I don’t spank my kids. I was like, I wish I did because I’d spank you right now because I’m so frustrated. And she was like, my God, I’m so scared. I’m so scared. And I was like, this is getting worse. And so I get her to dance. I drop her off.

Amber Wardell, PhD (44:32.366)
No.

Desiree Moore (44:53.78)
I sit in the parking lot, place a grocery order on my phone, like the quick and dirty, like 20 minute express delivery. like, I don’t have time to go to the grocery store. I think I run another errand maybe because when I get home, the person with my grocery order is approaching my house. And I’m still dysregulated at this point. She hands me the bag and I look inside it and half my items are missing.

And I just like look up with her. Like, and I remember like my eyes were tearing over and I was like, where’s the rest? And she was like, that’s, that’s all there is. And I was like, and then she starts to walk away. opened the back door of my car. throw the grocery bag inside the back of my car and inside my car, I yelled, mother fucker. I was so dysregulated. I mean, like I acted like an insane lady and this poor woman who just dropped off my groceries.

She wasn’t all the way to her car yet. So she like scampered off and I’ve been trying to find her for two years so I could apologize for being a lunatic, right? So I tell you that story and I know I sounded crazy in it, but I tell you that story because like I was trying to balance too much all at one time and I was holding myself to these impossible standards and I eventually just

Amber Wardell, PhD (46:02.372)
home

Desiree Moore (46:19.896)
crumpled and I broke because nobody could do what I was trying to do. It was quite literally impossible, right? And that moment, I think it was scaring the woman that actually did it for me. That was like the wake up call. That moment, I was just like, okay, I’ve got to change some things. This can’t continue. And so I started setting boundaries at work, even if that meant that things got worse for a little bit.

Amber Wardell, PhD (46:42.36)
Amen.

Desiree Moore (46:49.846)
until they got better. I started saying, you know, these are the nights I’m available to cook dinner. These are the nights I’m not available to cook dinner. you know, just like little tiny things, little tiny boundaries throughout my life. And I haven’t, I haven’t freaked out on anybody in two years, okay? But, but my daughter gets to dance on time every single time. Dinner’s mostly always accounted for. And if it’s not, have frozen pizza in the freezer always.

Amber Wardell, PhD (47:07.703)
You

Desiree Moore (47:19.558)
and, and so my advice is you are more human than you are machine. Okay. don’t hold yourself to an impossible standard and give yourself grace. Because if you don’t, you might break and you might, motherfucker into your car. while, while a door dash delivery driver runs away. So, that’s, that’s a really long story for a very short lesson, but I think it’s a pointy one.

Amber Wardell, PhD (47:47.3)
It’s a good one. And I would add too, and don’t let anyone else hold you to a standard of perfection that also they are not holding themselves to. I think that’s another big one is like the standards that you, people try to hold you to are very often not the same standard they are holding themselves to, which can get so frustrating.

Desiree Moore (48:07.326)
Never, never, yeah. Anyway, I hope nobody judges me for that story, or maybe you will, it’s okay.

Amber Wardell, PhD (48:09.155)
Yeah

Amber Wardell, PhD (48:15.714)
No, we’ve all had that story. We’ve all had that story. And the only people who would judge are the ones who are lying to themselves about whether or not they’ve had that kind of story. I do want to know though, how the cheese got on your windshield. Do you know?

Desiree Moore (48:26.658)
I don’t, teenagers were cheesing random cars and it was just the wrong day for me to get cheesed because any other day I love teenagers and I love their antics. So I would have laughed most days I would have laughed, but in Gillette, Wyoming.

Amber Wardell, PhD (48:39.054)
Wait, hold on, where do you live? Are you in Wisconsin? Wyoming. Wait, is it Wisconsin or Wyoming that’s the cheese place?

Desiree Moore (48:47.424)
Wyoming is not the cheese place, Wisconsin is.

Amber Wardell, PhD (48:50.436)
Okay. Okay. I thought, well, okay, very spot on.

Desiree Moore (48:52.398)
But you know, it’s a town of 30,000 people kind of in the middle of nowhere. so, you know, teenagers got to do something to keep themselves busy. At least you’re not, you know, doing drugs or just throwing cheese on people’s windshields. So.

Amber Wardell, PhD (49:03.556)
Yeah.

She’s in the windshields. I like it. I like it. Yeah.

Desiree Moore (49:11.16)
So yeah, it was a wild day. I yelled at my daughter, which never happens. I yelled in my car.

Amber Wardell, PhD (49:22.284)
We all, we all act in those ways. And you know, it’s why, so the last, the last chapter in my book is called self care in the abyss. And it’s my favorite chapter. And it’s a chapter that I didn’t even think I was going to put in the book. I wrote it after the book was finished. And I talk about this very thing. And I say in here, fulfilling self care, the kind that can nourish and heal allows for several things to be true at once. It is knowing that you are allowed to be a work in progress.

It is true that I have grown incredibly in my two year journey of healing. It is also true that I’m still super messed up and unhealed. My time here in the abyss doesn’t erase the times I soar. The only self care that is worth a damn is the kind that allows you to treat yourself with gently with self compassion, even when you’re doing the things that make you unproud. And I feel like that’s exactly the story you just described. Like I am not proud of how I’m behaving right now. I’m going to think about that later.

Desiree Moore (50:16.845)
Yeah.

Amber Wardell, PhD (50:21.476)
I’m going to work on that later. And also I’m not going to beat myself up. I’m going to acknowledge that I am human. I am behaving humanly and that is okay. I’m going to work on it and not beat myself up about it.

Desiree Moore (50:29.336)
Mm-hmm.

Desiree Moore (50:35.244)
Yep, and as Miss Roslyn, that’s my 11 year old by the way, says, practice makes progress, not perfection.

Amber Wardell, PhD (50:41.378)
Yes, yes, I love that. Okay, so Desiree, before we go, I want everyone to know that there will be, if you’re watching on YouTube, there will be right down below links. You’ll see pictures of both of these books. There will be direct links for you to go check these out if you want to.

Desiree Moore (50:43.564)
some.

Amber Wardell, PhD (50:59.41)
by either of our books, I so, so recommend that you go check out this book untitled for now by Desiree Moore. is absolutely beautiful. If you’re watching, if you’re listening in on Spotify or Apple, there are show notes down below that have the links. if you come to Amber Wardell.com and click on the same thumbnail that you’re seeing for this podcast, you will see the full show notes that have links to, any kind of resources that we’ve talked about here in today’s podcast.

but more than anything, it would just mean so much to me if you would go check out Desiree’s book because it’s just, it’s absolutely amazing. And Desiree, can you tell everyone where else they can find you?

Desiree Moore (51:39.898)
Yes, so you can find me on my social media channels. You’ll see me underscore Desiree underscore more for Instagram and the meet underscore Desiree for Facebook and Tick Tock. And so that is where you can find me. You can always go to my website at www.desireemorebooks.com to find everywhere I’m at and get any updates on works that I have in progress and coming up.

Amber Wardell, PhD (52:05.924)
And do you have a newsletter that they can sign up for?

Desiree Moore (52:08.534)
Yes, I do have a newsletter. You’ll get emails from me sometimes. yes, I do have one and it is on my website at Desiree Moore Books.com.

Amber Wardell, PhD (52:17.956)
Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much for being on Desiree and I hope to have you back on in the future. All right. Bye.

Desiree Moore (52:25.698)
Thank you, Amber. Bye.